Although we were told that the study workload would be lighter this week. I am finding myself deeper in study than in any week previous!
It is so important, especially at this point in our study, that we remember that what John is seeing is a vision... and that this vision is still YET to come. And this applies not only literally, but figuratively as well, for instance, Revelation 16:16 sees it's 'vision fulfillment' in Revelation 19:19.
Because our weekly Gathering on Thursday is time limited to only being able to contain so much, it is almost critical at this point, that we use the Study Room to further the teaching and our knowledge of Scripture.
I am currently compiling my notes from my own completed study and am focusing on Revelation 16:12-16. This is the portion of the chapter that speaks of what occurs at the pouring out of the Sixth Bowl. It is so vital that we understand what is happening here, so that our study, yet to come, will make sense to us. And so in the next few days I will be posting Scriptures from Isaiah, Zechariah, Habukkuk, Matthew, Jeremiah and others (including the song of Deborah) so that we can gain a deeper insight into the nations, the Lord God, Edom, Moab, and Ammon (all present day Jordan) and where the Lord goes when He leaves heaven and descends to the earth as the Conquering King.
If you could continue to pray for me I would be so thankful.
We are closing in on the final chapters of Revelation and we want to finish strong! Blessings upon each one of you!
29 comments:
Welcome to your Study Room!
Hi Cathie,
I seem to have lost a comment I wrote this morning in response to your "peeking in", I have no clue where it went but you have answered my questions about the reaping but brings up another question about the man on the cloud who I believe is Jesus. So He reaps when directed by angel who come out of the temple ( in heaven?) and then another angel reaps the vine of the earth and both these groups of reapees are thrown into the winepress? Who is left on earth at this point? Sorry to be still questioning last week's studybut I still feel a bit unsettled about it.
Hi Cathie,
Just like Jan, I seem to have lost a comment I made yesterday but have been thinking about it and think I know the answer. I was wondering if in Rev.15:9 the wrath of God was the end of everything but now I am thinking that can't be because we haven't seen the seven bowls of the wrath of God. Can you help me out?
I just love our group of sisters. They are all so genuine and helpful. We are so blessed!
Marnie,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with your son with us. It just shows us how God is continually working in us.
Hi Jan,
I'm so sorry that your comment was lost, due to my head cold I am sure, but I'm glad that your questions have been answered... with new ones tagging right behind. You too?
You are right. The One on the cloud (with a golden crown and a sickle) in Rev.14:14 is Jesus and we know this from other references throughout Scripture like Dan.7:13-14; Matthew 13:41 and others.
The angel is not commanding Jesus, but is simply a messenger of the will of the Father... it is time for Judgement. The crown that Jesus is wearing is STEPHANON, a 'garland of victory'... he will wear His DIADEM, His crown as KING of kings in Rev. 19.
As far as the reapers, reapees and the question 'who on earth is left upon the earth?' (no pun intended) I think the difficulty lies here... that the reaping that is spoken of here is the anticipation of Joel 3:11-16... the battle of Armageddon.
Quite often we think of the reaping as a 'gathering up in one fell swoop', almost like a puff of smoke, but the sickle that falls upon the earth will be one that causes the blood to run for 200 miles outside the city of Jerusalem... this is the winepress of God's wrath as seen in Rev. 19:15 and Isaiah 63:1-6.
Hope this helps you Jan!
Love you,
Cathie
Hi Debbie,
You too...hmm-mm.
I hope I have this right in thinking that you are referencing Re. 14:19... if so, I think that my response to Jan just might be for you to! And you are right... the bowls of wrath are yet to be poured out!
We always need to keep in mind that John is having a VISION... and that what he is seeing is yet to be (literally and figuratively) as we still have to reach Chapter 20!
I'm now calling it a night... but I will pop back into the Study Room tomorrow.
God bless,
Cathie
Hi Cathie,
wow we are making up for last week in buckets!!
I had answered your last post to me but it does'nt seem to be there!
Anyway thankyou so much for your teaching and the references to look up, Scripture sure interprets Scripture.
Did you catch a cold from your granddaughter? Thats what happens when we start to babysit!
Take care.
Hi Margaret,
You too? Well, I'm glad you are here now, and pleased that the Study Room is adding to our insight!
And yes, we waited until Makenna had her happy birthday and then we all turned on her the following day and blamed her for our colds! Looks like Gramma is going to have to up her health 'ante'!
I'll be checking into the Study Room throughout the day so let the conversation flow!
Hi Cathie.
Thanks for all your guidance!
I am having a good chuckle this morning as I have realized that I still have work to do on what should have been last week's study. I took yesterday off...BlG MISTAKE!
Off I go to check out each bucket!
Just a quick question...while we were in study and I don;t know who mentioned it but a reference was made to the "numbers"....666 referring to Satan, of course 7 to God and 8 to Jesus??? I had never heard of this before of the 8 referring to Jesus. Can anyone help me???
That's a new one on me.
I have seen some pretty weird theories in so called 'Biblical Studies' over the years. But having said that, it IS obvious in any thorough Bible study that some numbers contained in the Bible DO have symbolic meaning... the number 7 is one of them.
Biblically, the number 7 represents completeness and perfection. 7 days of creation; 7 days in a week with the Sabbath day being it' climax; in Lev. the land was to have a Sabbath rest every 7th year; in Genesis there were 7 good years followed by 7 years of famine; Jacob worked 7 years for Rachel....
We see it in the New Testament as well. 7 deacons in Acts and 7 churches in Revelation. Then there are the multiples! Jesus teaches us not to forgive 7 times but 70 times 7! (I'll stop now!)
3, 4 and 40 are other obvious numbers that have symbolic meaning throughout Scripture (but for Joan's sake... I will NOT digress here!)
So, from my study so far, this is what I believe. 666 in Revelation represents each member of the UNHOLY TRINITY. Each one falling 'short' of perfection, which, of course, would be 7.
Like I said... 8 is a new one on me!
Hi to all,
Like Debbie said, I really love our group of sisters. I feel such a closeness to all of them. I did not have any biological sisters and now this is such a joyous feeling. You girls truly bring much joy into my life.
Thanks, Cathie, for the helpful comments. It seems like these 2 chapters have been difficult for me to get my head around but I feel that it is so important that I understand them. I have done the 1st 2 days of chapt. 15 and its going okay so far. Wonder what chapt 16 holds.
With thanks for all His many blessings to me,
Jan
Hi Cathie,
Edna asked the question regarding the number 8 and when I heard it I remember that I had read it as well. I just checked David Guzik's commentary and he says that the name of Jesus in Greek adds up to 888. You will find it in his commentary on Revelation 13. Maybe that is what was meant.
Thank you Angie!
Your sharing this began to stir up my little pea brain and I remembered that in both the Hebrew and the Greek, numbers are made from letters, just like Roman numerals!
So this would mean that you could take ANY word in Greek or Hebrew and give it a numerical equivalent... so Jesus would be 888.
So many have used this system to try and figure out the name of the beast, however, God gives us insight in Rev. 13:18 as to how to calculate 666... no matter HOW you calculate the number of the beast... it will always come up the same ... 'MAN'
The one who wanted to be God, is always short of God. The number 666 represents the highest MAN can become apart from Christ. No wonder satan is furious as his time draws closer to an end.
Thanks sisters.....
Hi Cathie,
To my recollection in our discussion last Thurs. we had come to the conclusion that 666 represents Man as it falls short of the perfect number 7. Your comment that 666 depicts the Satanic trinity is very interesting as he too of falls short of our Holy Perfect Saviour,who is above perfection.
Hi Margaret... you got it!
It reminds me so much of our study in Daniel, where the writing was on the wall of Belshazzar the Chaldean king and only Daniel could understand the inscription... MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSHIN... "God has numbered your kingdom and put an end to it...you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient."
Hi Cathie,
Somthing has been bothering me about the 144,000 who were sealed by God. Is it correct that they were part of the tribualation and if so are these the ones that God prepared a place for to protect them during this time? I read one commentary that said they were killed during the tribulation and now I am totally confused. Hopefully I haven't confused you too.
Thanks
Hi Cathie,
Just a few of my thoughts so far, and 2 questions.
What I read in chapter 15:2 of the sea of glass mixed with fire so beautiful to visualize and then the words to the song of Moses, and the song of the Lamb...again, beautiful!...but then vs:8 comes and it is hard to put into words the horror of what is about to unfold!
Revelation 16:16 tells us this is Armageddon. First question, are Revelation 9:14 and 14:20 also speaking of Armageddon?
Second question, could you explain Revelation 16:15? I find this verse hard to understand as it is speaking of coming like a thief in the night. With what is now taking place on earth this verse is unusual. It seems to be one that is more fitting to the "rapture".
I know that it will all make sense when you explain it!
See you Thursday girls!
Love...Always,
Angie
Hi Debbie, I believe that the short answer is YES!
These 144,000 are the ones that come through the Great Tribulation (last 3 1/2 years) and yes they are included with the ones that God will have prepared a place for (protected) during this time.
I have a question for you though... did you become confused before or after you read the commentary?
We may not have all the details of how this is all going to transpire, but as we look at the timing of the seals, trumpets, woes and bowls we can get a pretty good idea.
We know that the seals BEGIN the judgement of God upon the earth;
and that AFTER the 6th seal and BEFORE the 7th seal, the 144,000 are themselves sealed;
We know that upon the breaking of the 7th seal, there will be silence in heaven for about 1/2 an hour, and THEN the angels will prepare to sound the seven trumpets;
The 1st trumpets sounds, then the 2nd, then the 3rd and then the 4th;
It is upon the sounding of the 5th trumpet that the FIRST WOE will come;
the SECOND WOE will come with the 6th trumpet (beginning the Terrible Day of the Lord);
the THIRD WOE will come with the 7th trumpet sounding and this 7th trumpet will also declare the mystery of God to be finished; (we'll leave the bowls for now!)
The reason I went through all that is to show the sequence. These 144,000 will not be children, they will be considered adult men.
The ENTIRE tribulation period lasts 7 years, the last 3 1/2 years being the Great Tribulation. These men would have seen and gone through the ENTIRE tribulation period, being sealed ONLY after the breaking of the 6th seal.
Many believers, Jew and Gentile alike WILL become martyrs during this time. We know this because of what Jesus told those who were under the alter in heaven.
However, when Jesus returns to the earth, these 144,000 that were sealed are intact in their number. They have lived through the Great Tribulation and this is why in Rev. 14 we see them singing a NEW SONG. They will be distinct in their characteristic as remaining intact in number throughout the Great Tribulation... no one will be able to sing that song like they will be able to sing it!
I hope that this answer does not confuse you more, but simply highlights some of the chapters that we have been studying.
Your questions show me that you are studying thoroughly and that you are taking in what you are studying and that you are assessing the commentaries that you are reading by the plumb line of the Word of God... you inspire me!
I don't have time to proof as Angie also has a few questions and I would like to answer them tonight as I will be gone most of tomorrow...
Love you!
Hi Angie, it was good speaking with you today, and I'll take your thoughts and 2 questions, gladly!
First, let's take your first question back one verse to Rev. 9:13. This sixth trumpet was the heralding in of the Terrible Day of the Lord which is mentioned in Daniel 7 and 2 Thess. 2. It is the time when the 'little horn' of Daniel, the anti-Christ will set himself up in the temple declaring himself to be God. The next verse (v.14) is where you were wondering whether or not it was speaking of Har- Magedon (Armageddon)
Yes and No.
Yes in the sense that it is the preparation FOR Har-Magedon.
No in the sense that the 7th trumpet has not yet sounded and much has yet to transpire.
Your second question was..."could you explain Revelation 16:15? I find this verse hard to understand as it is speaking of coming like a thief in the night. With what is now taking place on earth this verse is unusual. It seems to be one that is more fitting to the "rapture".
I think to understand this we need to go back to Rev. 3:3-5 and the instructions that were given to the church at Sardis. The important points here are WAKE UP and CLOTHED IN WHITE GARMENTS. The church of Sardis had yet to OBTAIN their white garments.
Then we need to go back to Rev. 16:15 and read it again, the main points here being STAY AWAKE, KEEP YOUR WHITE GARMENTS (these already HAVE their white garments) and then the purpose clause... SO THAT.
Yes, at this point in history the church WILL have been already raptured, yet those that now belong to Christ that live on the face of the earth are also (just like us) longing for Christ's return and are living through times, the horror of which, has never been seen nor will be seen again.
They also are seeing unfold 'the times of the coming of Christ', they know what is written (we ourselves are reading it today) yet the onslaught of persecution and the mark of the beast could cause them to crumble in an hour... STAY AWAKE! KEEP YOUR WHITE GARMENTS (not just keep them unsoiled, but KEEP THEM!) SO THAT when the KING OF KINGS RETURNS you WILL NOT BE NAKED AND MEN SEE YOUR SHAME.
I don't know if this helps Angie, we just know that God has put in parenthesis these words between the announcement of the demons which will go out and gather the kings of the earth together to war against God Himself AND the outcome of this gathering at Har-Magedon.
Once it begins it will move quickly, and perhaps this is the reason for the reminder of Him returning like a thief in the night.
Good night Angie, my husband is already 'sawing wood' and my feminine version of that very same thing is not far behind him!
Hi Cathie,
I am going on a little 24 hour "getaway" with my hubby but could not leave without thanking you for taking the time to answer my questions.
Cathie, it did not go unnoticed as to the hour you did this. It brought back memories of a time when we were emailing each other into the wee hours. I see that Debbie and I were both in need of your counsel last night. You will be happy to know that my homework is going with me today!
Cathie, you are such a gift from God to us... and we "treasure" you!
Hi Cathie,
Thanks so much for all your information. I was not confused until I read the commentary because I remember you discussing the 144,00 and the place God was preparing for them but I thought maybe I got mixed up what you said. For once I didn't. You sure help to clarify things. I was also interested in the thief in the night that Angie asked and you answered. I didn't read it very well because I thought it was referring to before the tribulation. Sometimes I think I understand when I really don't. It is those keys words that I often miss out but I keep telling myself that it will eventually come. As you keep saying God will reveal things to us as we are ready. I WANT TO BE READY NOW!!!!!
Thanks so much for all the time you take to discuss things with us. We are truly blessed (not lucky) to have you.
Hi Debbie! You were on the right track all the time sweetheart... I knew it!
I've been out most of the day and then this evening both my brother and mother were taken by ambulance to the hospital. Scott and I have just come home and I will probably have to leave again close to midnight.
I will try and post tomorrow, but cannot make any promises. God knows what He is doing and I trust Him with it all.
Debbie, earnest desire for more understanding is a pure joy for me to behold!
Love you sweetheart,
Cathie
Our prayers are with you Cathie, as you go through this difficult time.
Love Margaret
Hi Cathie,
I just read the blog comments from the last 2 days. I am hoping that this morning your mother and brother are doing much better. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers this morning.
Much love,
Jan
Hi Cathie,
I am so sorry to hear about your brother and mother and both my thoughts and prayers are with you. I know that God hears each and every one of our prayers and that he is with your family right now carrying out his own plan for them.
Love Debbie
Love Debbie
Hi Cathie,
Thankyou for your comments on the 6th bowl. As you say it is very important that we understand what is happening and satan knows that too, and it's the last thing he wants for us, to understand what God is saying to us. We your sisters will be praying for you. You have had a lot of family issues to deal with in the last week apart from doing your own study and writing on the blog, we pray that Jesus will be a hedge around
you and keep satan at bay, give you strength and energy and insight into His Word.
I realised what you were getting at in your post to Wendy,'they GATHERED them together"
Thank you all so much for your concern and prayers... just knowing that you are praying is a balm to my soul.
Margaret, I am so glad that you got it! Your comment just lit me up like a beacon!
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