OK, so how are you all doing this week as you study your way through Revelation Chapters 13 and 14? I am always hesitant to do any extended teaching in the Study Room until I know that you have completed your homework, simply because I know that the joy of discovering Truth for yourself is so wonderful!
However, you have all been so quiet this week that I thought I would be on pretty safe ground if I simply brought something up from last week and carried it over to the first few verses of Chapter 13.
Do you remember in our last class when we were discussing Chapter 12:15-16 regarding the serpent pouring 'water out like a river' with the intent of causing the woman 'to be swept away with the flood'? I had pointed you towards Psalm 124 as a point of reference regarding the 'river of water' and the ensuing 'flood' as a description of the Gentile nations' persecution of the Jews.
As we move into Revelation Chapter 13 we now see the dragon standing on the 'sand of the seashore', and the beast 'coming up out of the sea'. (I remember teaching this during our year long study in Daniel and Jenny Daly just being on the edge of her seat as understanding began to settle into her!)We always need to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture and so let's look at Revelation 17:1...
"Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "come here, I will show you the judgement of the great harlot who sits on many waters..."
Now let's look at Revelation 17:15...
And he said to me, 'The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
Now read Revelation 20:7-8...
"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore."
Remember to use, use, use, this Study Room girls! Your Study Room! It is here for you to use to gain further teaching and learning as you study throughout the week. Ask questions, share your insights, your frustrations, your joys.
ppssst... ( Now that you have read over today's posting... check out Revelation 21:1 and perhaps you will gain further understanding of what this verse actually means!)
Love you!
18 comments:
Hi Girls! Pull up a chair and let's get this study underway!
Cathie,
I got it! What a great feeling when you see the light. At first after reading your notes but not yet reading Rev21:1 I felt terrible because I had not seen the connection of the water. I am afraid I am still on a very elementary level but realize that I can only absorb so much at a time and with your help my understanding is expanding. Looking forward to Thursday. I enjoyed this week as I understood lots of it (but of course tomorrow I will probably realize that I missed so much on my own).
Hi Debbie and Cathie,
I got it too! Just wish I had gotten it on my own...maybe next time. I had stayed with just what was asked because I was afraid of going down one of my bunny trails and not finishing. That is all good but isn't there that extra thrill when you "get" something that is a little deeper. Thanks Cathie...you made my evening! I have to confess...Marnie actually got it first. Marnie has actually been so excited with what has been happening in regard to this study. I will leave it up to her share. Isn't wondering fun?
See you tomorrow.
I used to think when I read that verse Rev21:1 that it meant in the new heaven and earth there was no sea! and I love the sea, so wondered about it. How great to know what it really means!
I've been battling with the 2 beasts and will see tomorrow if I got it right!I was having quite a time and kept looking on the blog for any comments, but as you said Cathie we were all pretty quiet.
Hope to see you tomorrow.
Hi you two!
I am so pleased that this posting was able to help you in your own personal study... playing it safe, I was trying to stay with ONLY the first verse of this week's homework and not go ahead of what you were presently studying, so as not to take away your own joy of finding it on your own... and Angie, I agree, I love when just that little bit more is revealed and it just takes our understanding that much more deeper!
Debbie, I just love your... "I got it!" You'll have many more moments like that as we go through and each one will seem just as sweet as the time before.
If I am not able to make it in tomorrow morning, I know that you all will have a really wonderful class, sharing all that you have gleaned this week... and if there is ANYTHING that needs further discussion here in the Study Room, just to finish off the week strong before we head into yet another week... then let's gather here and DO IT!
By the way, you two have been busy bees! It was so nice to see you both commenting in Pure Grace and sharing what was so evidently full within your hearts. Learning to be still is simply an act of faith, the more faith that we have, the more 'still' we become, and the more still we become, the more we know our God ... Beautiful!
Hi everyone,
Ok, I just read your comments, Cathie, then Debbie's, Angie's, and Margaret's and ran to read all these verses in the Bible ( have not read Psalm 124 yet) and I don't think that I am getting it. Are you saying that the water (sea) is symbolic of Gentile nations when they are persecuting the Jews. Can we talk more about it tomorrow?
Like Margaret mentioned, I have had some difficulty following after the 2nd beast appears. The pronoun "he" is used and I have had a little trouble knowing which beast was the "he" at any given point. Think I've got it now but I am not sure,
I have some questions about the reaping in vs. 15 and 16 and the gathering of the clusters in vs. 18and 19.
Tomorrow????
Looking forward to our time together,
Jan
Hi Margaret!
You must have left your comment as I was busy typing mine! It is so nice to see you here... so you've been battling with those two beasts have you? I would have enjoyed getting into the Scriptures with you this week regarding them... remember, I poke my nose in the Study Room door each day, it would be great to see your nose poking around the corner too! We could have us some really good mid-week study time!
Looking forward to what tomorrow brings us!
With love,
Cathie
Hi Jan! For heaven's sake... you squeaked in as I was typing my response to Margaret... you girl's are quick!
In answer to your queries, it's pretty much....
Yep.
Yep.
I hope so!
We'll talk about it more tomorrow. Sleep well sweetheart... knowing that He instructs your heart even as you sleep, and His banner over you is Love!
Hi Girls! Well, I was surely missing you this morning... AND I was surely missing out.... I know that for sure!
Hi Jan! I just have a minute here, and I am thinking that your questions from last night were probably all answered this morning - it's hard for me to know what was discussed until I hear from you girls, so I apologize if what I add to the discussion is ridiculously redundant!
In regards to 'the sea'... we learn throughout Revelation that the devil, the anti-christ and the anti-christian empire (the scarlet beast of 17:3) are all depicted as sea monsters. This helps us in our interpretation and understanding (along with my last posting Scripture references in 'Sand and Sea') of 'the sea'.
In short, the 'beast' of Rev. 13:1 is the anti-christ and the other 'beast' of Rev. 13:11 is the false prophet.
If you look at Rev. 16:13 you will see the UNHOLY TRINITY... the dragon (satan) being the anti-father; the beast being the anti-christ; and the false prophet (the other beast) is the anti-holy spirit.
Remember that satan is a liar, a deceiver and always wanted to be God. In Revelation 13:3 we see how the anti-christ imitates the death and resurrection of Jesus... the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast (the anti-christ) because of this, and worshipped the dragon (satan), because it was satan that gave the anti-christ his power, his throne and his authority... sound familiar?
OK, I'm just going to leave it at that and if you girls want to discuss these chapters more before we proceed into our next week's homework... then pull up a chair and let's start discussin'!
love you!
Cathie
Hi Cathie,
Well it was an interesting morning!
We really missed you but felt that the Holy Spirit was really trying to help us interpretate the passages.
Concerning the 144,000 singing a new song which only they knew,was it as they were they were redeemed after the rapture? We assumed they were not literally all men but men and women.
It seems that the dragon is satan, the 1st beast is an antichrist and the 2nd beast is a false prophet or priest that comes in the form of a lamb having 2 horns like a lamb and will be from Israel. The image of the beast we feel is like a statue of the beast that will be given power to talk and looks like
the 1st beast.
Also from the text in Rev 14:15-20
there seems to be 2 reapings. the first one by Christ of His elect and the 2nd of those who are the cursed (the grapesfrom the vine of the earth?)
If one of the group does'nt agree with me on this please say, and Cathie let us know if we are on the right track.I feel I'm putting myself out on a line saying all this, but as you said Cathie use use the blog as that is what it is there for!
.
Hi Margaret! I'm going to have to do this in differently timed segments due to my schedule today... just keep peeking into the Study Room to see if I'm here!
OK, the 144,000.
From my study I believe these to be those that are mentioned in Rev. 7:4-8.
The difference, is that now in John's vision they are in triumph at the time of the returning of Jesus Christ from heaven to EARTH. They are not the only ones that have survived, but they are the intact 144,000 that have lived through the Great Tribulation and have not died as martyr's.
I believe that Rev. 14:2-3 shows us that it was a heavenly voice which sounded like harpists playing on their harps and it was these 'harpists' or that 'voice' that sang the new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders (**REMEMBER, the 144,000 were still on the earth... not in heaven).
The only ones that could learn this new song was the 144,000. There are a lot of songs being sung in Revelation! There was the new song of 5:9, the song of Moses in 15:3 and the song of the Lamb 15:3. Whatever the content of this new song is, one thing we can know for sure, it is specific to the experiences and the purposes ordained for this group of Jews and the returning of their King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
Now... were they all men, or were they men and women? In Rev. 7:4-8 we are not told. Yet in Rev. 14:4 it very specifically says that these 144,000 have not been defiled with women. 'Women' is GUNE in the Greek and carries with it the meaning of a woman of 'any age, whether married, virgin, or widowed'. Unless this is alluding to lesbianism, which I do not believe it is... I take this literally to mean MEN.
I know that there are many thoughts on this, some take it as symbolism as an abstinence from 'fornicating' with the 'harlot', who is Babylon. This could very well be correct. Yet, at this point in time, from my study of Scripture, my view comes from the perspective of the Jews, believing that these were men who were sealed and now engaged in the active service of God, which would have included sexual abstinence (Deut.20:1-9; 23:9-14; 1 Sam.21:4-5; 2 Sam.11:6-13. Their marriage beds would have remained 'undefiled' if they were married at the time of the 'sealing'... but their focus now was upon the Lord's service.
Ok, I'll be back later!
Well it is good to be back in the fold after a long absence (seems like it was a long one) Having not been very diligent in my study while I was gone I only read 13 & 14 a few times. So I can say....I cheated this morning and just listened to what was being said taking notes. So needless to say I learned quite a lot. Getting the him and the he of 13:11-17 staightened around was the high point. Finding out what the "sea" as in 13:1, it now seems so obvious.
So, thank you sisters and thank you Cathie for helping me to get back on track.....
Hi Girls!
Well...I am finally here...only took a few weeks!!! So glad to be here!
I have really enjoyed reading to postings for this week...much growth is happening for us all, I believe!
I have to share with you, a bit of an aside, yet it thrilled my heart this week...
My wonderful 14 year old son and I were at home one night...he was watching the Canucks game very quietly as I was doing my study in the room with him. During the intermission, he disappeared upstairs and came back down right before the start of the 2nd period. He came over to me and pointed to my Revelation study guide. He said "I've been reading my Bible too." I said "That's wonderful sweetheart." He then said "The seven stars are the seven angels of the churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." I just about lost it! So then I opened my notebook as he said he read the first two chapters and we went through the first 4 churches, how Jesus is portrayed, His commendations, warning etc...and he got much of it...as I went through them with him, he would say "Yeah...that's what I read" or he would add something to it. I am still treasuring this moment we had together...and entrusting/praying those words Jared read will minister to him and be imprinted on his heart...and that his passion for the Bible would continue to burn within him...even during a beloved Canucks game!
My love to you all...
Marnie
Hi Cathie,
I remember how at the beginning of this study you told us to put aside everything that we think we know about Revelation. That has been a challenge for me but when I have done that and been open to God's Word alone...there have been some wonderful discoveries! For instance, I had always given the false prophet little thought as to his power and the role he plays during the tribulation. Being with the girls this morning opened my eyes. Thank you!
I may not get it all but what I do is a blessing to me and I also remember Rev 1:3 "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophesy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."
Thank you Cathie for the two postings you gave us. More "light"
for this grateful old brain. I am starting to get excited about learning how "His Story" ends and "Eternity with Him begins!"
That's woderful Marnie, that wuould thrill any mother's heart!
Hi Edna! Hi Marnie!
Good to see you two back in the Study Room... you've both been missed! I feel as if I need to play a little game of 'Catch Up" with both of you!
Enjoyed your sharing on the blog Edna, it did my heart good!
And Marnie... 14 is a hard age for most young men... I praise God for what He is doing in Jared, and I praise God for what He is doing in both you and Mark and your entire family. He Will do more than we could ever ask or think, and I know that you treasure these moments in your mothers heart...
OK, so how did you girls make out with my comment on the gender of the 144,000? I'm just askin'!
Margaret brought forward the subject of the false prophet perhaps being from Israel. In my study, I have not yet found anything that would clarify this.
Because we know that 'the first beast' came up, out of the sea (which is the Gentile nations), we know that he will be a Gentile and not a Jew.
The 'false prophet' (the second beast) lies in distinct contrast to the first, as he comes 'up out of the earth'. This word 'earth' is GE and carries with it the meaning of 'the entire world'. It is not the word 'land' that many have taken to mean 'the promised land' and as such interpreting this as meaning that he was a Jew.
Margaret, I just have to say that I appreciate you 'putting yourself on the line'! It is not easy, and can be highly uncomfortable! I can empathize with you, knowing that I feel the same way myself every time I click that Publish Your Comment button! But hey, it's not the firing line! It's the line of how far our faith has taken us to this point in time and praise God for how far we have come, and how far we have still yet to go! I commend you for your teachable spirit and your willingness to 'lean in'!
Having said that, you brought up two reapings... if you are just speaking about Rev.14:14-20 this is a single reaping of the 'harvest of the earth', done in two ways.
The word 'ripe' in Greek is EXERANTHE meaning 'over-ripe; withered; wasted'. We can see by the context of v.15-20 that this reaping is a JUDGEMENT in itself.
Many have believed that v.14-16 is a harvest of saints and that v.17-20 is the harvest of the wicked, however, in my study I cannot correlate the saints as being 'withered' and 'wasted' and 'over-ripe' (ruined/spoiled).
Now, in v.18 we see the sickle coming down on the clusters that are still attached to the vine of the earth 'because her grapes are ripe'. The word here in the Greek for 'ripe' is EKMASEN meaning 'to be fully grown; in prime condition'.
So here is what I believe, there are those who are over-ripe (just ready to fall off the vine) and those who are well on their way to being 'over-ripe'(still clinging to the vine, but barely. Either way, both of these reapings of the harvest will be thrown into the 'great wine press of the wrath of God'.
cont...
cont...
There WILL come a day when the measure of mankind's sin will be filled up and they are ripe for destruction, and God will not spare them.
The angel of Rev. 14:6 has proclaimed the gospel throughout the whole world, and now the hour of JUDGEMENT had come...
Now, I am going to give you a few verses to run and I hope that they will help you some, in your study. I am only giving you the references, you can read the surrounding verses for their context if you have the time to do so.
Joel 3:13
Mark 4:29
Lamentations 1:15
Isaiah 63:2
If we were in class I would have had you flipping to these! By the way, from our study of John, you will remember that there is the One True Vine... and it is not the vine of the earth!
OK Margaret, I'm about to push that button!
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