"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth;
for the first heaven and the first earth passed away,
and there is no longer any sea."
Revelation 21:1
There was so much to take in during our study of these last two chapters of Revelation this past week.
This post, if nothing else, is just me adding a few things to the discussion that you have already started this morning. In order to not be redundant, I will wait for our Study Room discussion to begin before adding anything more!
This week, as I began reading Rev. 21:1, I immediately thought of the 'first Adam' and the 'last Adam' (1 Corinthians 15:45), the first being of the natural, the last being of the spirit... which led me to think of our past study in Romans, where we are told that creation itself "...was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him Who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now..." (Romans 8:18-23) The earth itself will one day be redeemed, purchased, in a sense, through the blood of Christ from its slavery and brought into freedom.
Think about it this way, just as Christ had to die, (John 12:24) and death being the way to life; so also we died in order to receive newness of life (Romans 6:4); and so also the earth and heavens must 'die' in order to make way for the 'new heaven and new earth'... it's beautiful, isn't it?
From earlier posts and study you will have seen that in this new earth there will no longer be any sea. This translates back to 13:1 and 17:1,15 - meaning... no longer any nations... because all the people of the new earth will be one people.... the people of God.
I know that you saw that the One Who sits on the throne in Chapter 20 is Jesus, and that in Chapter 21, when the new city, the new Jerusalem, comes down from heaven (from God).... God Himself comes with it! And that it is God Himself Who will wipe away every tear; inaugurating (by His very presence and dwelling amongst His people) no more mourning, no more death, no more crying and no more pain (all, by the way, which tells us more about the 1,000 year reign!)... He, God the Father, makes all things new.
Yes, there will come That Day, ... until then, let the knowledge that His mercies are new every morning!
I have been blessed, right along with all of you, during our time in our study of Revelation. I am looking forward to the next few days in the Study Room with you, looking forward to your insights, your questions, your musings, your reflections... your hearts.
I was wondering if you could each get back to me on something... now that we have completed our study in Revelation, would you be comfortable in opening up this Study Room to others that would perhaps want to go through... or should we just close it down and only give future access to those that have actually participated? Whatever you decide will be done... you have all opened yourselves up so willingly during our times here together, made yourselves vulnerable before God and your sisters; if you would like that to remain permanently sealed within our group please let me know.
My intent has always been to serve God, by serving you. I love each of you so very much, you have all blessed me more than my words could ever express. Not one single day has gone by that you have not been on my heart before God... I treasure you.
With love,
14 comments:
Hi Cathie,
Thanks you so much for guiding us through this study. You certainly have served both us and God well. As far as whether we should open this study up to others, I prefer to leave it the way it is now as some of us might not have written what we did if we knew others would be able to acces it at a later date. But of course I am willing to go along with how the majority of my sisters feel.
Now for my question: I didn't understand what you meant by that should give us a clue to the 1000yr reign. I thought chapter 21 & 22 were after the 1000yr reign. Is this correct? I thought thast during the 1000yr reign Jesus would rule with an iron rod?
Hi Cathie and Debbie,
I also want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for quiding us through this study. I have learned so much and come so far from where I started last fall. I still feel that there are many things in Revelation that I don't understand but I have grown so much in understanding God's plan of salvation for us. Sometimes it's hard to believe how ignorant I was. I am seeing much more of the whole picture from Genesis to Revelation. The whole thing just astounds me!!!
I know Cat will have the questions we had as a group but I have more since yesterday.
First, because there will be no more tears, crying, mourning, or pain in the new heaven and earth, does that mean that during the millenial reign all these will still be present, therefore people will still die during that time?
If there are no more nations what does Rev.21:24 mean when it says "and the nations shall walk by its light and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it" "it" meaning the new Jerusalem?
I am not sure when Rev. 22:6-21 is actually happening. It seems to fit better with chap.1 than it does at the end of Revelation.
HELP!
As to what to do about the blog, is there anyway we can protect what has been said during this study and open it up for the future? I am okay with whatever the majority want but it has been a good feeling to share with only those who have been involved in this particular study.
I cherish you all.
Love,
Jan
Hi Everyone....New Heaven and New Earth....yahooo. We have come to the end of our study..and thankyou Cathie for all your guidance during these past many weeks, even at times when you plate was heaped and overflowing. Just one question for now as I know Cat was writing fast and furious the list of questions we had. 22:14 at first I thought hell surrounded us in the New Jerusalem but since hell is "lake of fire" it can only be situated at the base. Is this a correct ?? Not that is matters one little bit, cause we're on the inside....
As far as general access to our group I too will go with the majority.
Hi Debbie, Hi Jan, Hi Edna! Well, I am finally here and able to spend some time in the Study Room with you this morning!
First things first... thank you for your responses either through e-mail to me or through the blog... the Study Room will continue to remain PRIVATE. This was my personal preference as well, but felt that I needed to make sure that this was your intent as well.
Debbie, your question was actually answered by Jan! Your conclusions were right on regarding Chapter 21 and 22, yet in Chapter 21 we are able to get an even more 'revealed' picture of the 1,000 year reign.
Jan, let's look at your last two questions (your first question you answered correctly yourself!)...
Your first question is... "If there are no more nations what does Rev.21:24 mean when it says "and the nations shall walk by its light and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it" "it" meaning the new Jerusalem?"
The short answer is this... there will be saved people from among the 'nations' and some of those saved people will be the actual kings of those 'nations'. The 'nations' that we have read of throughout the Bible, (those that are separate from God's people) will be no more (Rev.21:1)... so the 'nations' that are spoken of in 21:24 are those that are now in the One of the people of God.
Some references to this would be isaiah 60:3, 5, 11.
The terminology may at first throw the reader off... but when the whole counsel of God is taken into context, I believe that it becomes clear.
Your second question was... "I am not sure when Rev. 22:6-21 is actually happening. It seems to fit better with chap.1 than it does at the end of Revelation.
HELP!
This segment of Chapter 22 is mostly referred to as the 'Final Message' or 'The Epilogue'. If you have been keeping up with your list of Chapter Themes and Segment Divisions - this would be the final one of Revelation!
It actually ties back to Rev. 1:1 in that the 'he' of v.6 would be the angel who is speaking to John (read 22:9). This would place the timing of this segment back in the 'present day of John' who is still in exile on the Isle of Patmos...
Looks like this comment will have to be a 'two parter'... see you in the next comment!
Edna, you had a question too! It was "Just one question for now ... 22:14 at first I thought hell surrounded us in the New Jerusalem but since hell is "lake of fire" it can only be situated at the base. Is this a correct ?? Not that is matters one little bit, cause we're on the inside....
I love how you ended that question!
The thing to keep in mind here is that this is symbolic language... in the sense that we need to take the whole counsel of God into consideration here.
22:15 can be linked back to 21:8 and 21:27. The Lake of Fire is definitely HELL... it is the second death.
It is the place of ETERNAL ABSENCE from the PRESENCE OF GOD. This is something that is hard for us to even imagine, because as sinful as this world is, the glory of God is still being revealed through His creation, which continually points to Him, the Creator. His Glory is also being revealed through His servants here on earth and also through the prayers of His people. The Lake of Fire, Hell is the place of ETERNAL ABSENCE from the PRESENCE OF GOD... not one single trace of Him, other than the torment of His Justice and Righteousness.
Of course the Lake of Fire is OUTSIDE the Holy City... and yes Edna... we are, praise be to God!, INSIDE the Holy City. It is a City that is filled with the Light of the Presence of the fullness of GOD... in stark comparison with the Lake of Fire (Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30)
Those that are INSIDE the Holy City are with their Father....(Rev. 21:3-7)
Those that are OUTSIDE the Holy City are with their father.... (John 8:44, Rev. 20:10)
Those INSIDE the Holy City will drink from the Spring of the Water of Life without cost....
Those OUTSIDE the Holy City will be in constant, eternal thirst... never to be satiated (Luke 16:19-31)
I hope that this helps you... if you still have questions, I will definitely be back in the Study Room later on the evening.
Looking forward to seeing you on Thursday!
Cathie
Hi there! Mom, Dad, and I went to hear David Hocking speak last night, and got to sit with Angie, Edna, and Jan! That was a treat. He was talking about how to live as Christians in this world (Eph. 4-6) and boy were some of his comments convicting! But others were very encouraging.
Anyway, one of the things that no one really seemed to understand on Thursday was the Bride. Elsewhere in the Word, we are told that we, the body of believers, are the bride of Christ but in Rev 21-22 we are told the new Jerusalem is the bride. How can it be both? I don't get it...
What a treat indeed! Looks like I'm going to have to start attending some of these conferences in order to be with my girls!
Jan said that you had the questions Cat... I've been wondering what they would be!
So the question is... "one of the things that no one really seemed to understand on Thursday was the Bride. Elsewhere in the Word, we are told that we, the body of believers, are the bride of Christ but in Rev 21-22 we are told the new Jerusalem is the bride. How can it be both? I don't get it..."
Here again is the beauty of metaphor! It really IS both!
So we already know that the Bride of Christ is a metaphor for the church...
Christ=the bridegroom
Church=bride.
In the context of the culture of the time, Paul even used metaphor in 2 Cor.11:2-3 and 1 Cor.4:15 to equate himself as being the spiritual father of a daughter (church) and being intent on presenting her (bride) undefiled to Christ (groom).
The metaphor of Jerusalem being the bride is fullfilled in v.9 where the bride becomes the WIFE. The CITY and the CHURCH must be joined together before the BRIDE actually becomes the WIFE... so that the HUSBAND may dwell among or (in) her.
So basically, Jerusalem is FULLY identified as being the PEOPLE (Church) of God, citizens of the New Jerusalem.
I don't know if you are like me, but I seem to have not much difficulty with hyperboles, similies, allegories or parables... but metaphors tend to bring my sometimes fluid study to a shuddering halt more often than not...
I hope this helps!
By the way, what did David Hocking say that was so convicting and so encouraging... I would love to know!
I thought I had more questions in my notes, but they're what Debbie Jan and Edna already asked.
I'll give you my notes. Points one through four were convicting, and point five was encouraging. You'll see.
How do I walk in this world?
1. By displaying consistency in what I think, say, and do. No compromise - live what I believe. Don't be intimidated or afraid - that's a snare, a trap - fear the Lord! Eph. 4:1
2. By denying the temptation to walk and live like non-believers. Eph. 4:17 Be bold, avoid all appearance of evil. You know, that dirty joke you listened to and didn't say anything, the time you didn't pray out loud because you didn't want to bother anyone...
3. By demonstrating a love for other believers that reveals a willingness to forgive. Eph. 4:25-5:5 Grace - giving to someone what they don't deserve. We need to extend grace to one another. Stop lying, anger, theft, speaking evil of others, grieving the Spirit. Outsiders are supposed to know that we know Him by our love for one another.
4. By determining to stay away from sinful talk and practices. Eph. 5:8
And now the best part,
5. By depending upon the Holy Spirit! Eph 5:15 We are to be Spirit-filled, that is, controlled by Him. We are either spiritual or carnal -- living according to the flesh, or giving up control to the Spirit. We can't walk the walk by ourselves, but the Spirit will uphold us! Though we fall seven times in a day, He will catch us and lift us up.
Evidence we are depending on the Spirit:
Spiritual communication Eph. 5:19
- speaking Scripture
- speaking everything in relation to God
Inward joyfulness
Continual thankfulness
Mutual submission
- submitting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ
- in marriage
- in family life
- in business
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it. 1 Thes. 5:23-24
I love you my sisters.
As we love you sweetheart.
Thank you for sharing and edifying!
Great job Cat!
Nothing like having last night refreshed in my mind...I'm with you on the filled with the Holy Spirit and having our thoughts and actions controlled by God Talk and God Thoughts! Such comfort in knowing that when I fail He is right there...even when it even may be MORE than seven times!
This sister loves you too!
Hi Cat,
Thanks so much for sharing David Hocking with us. I so wanted to go but had already committed to looking after our grandchildren. It looks like I ended up getting both my wishes fulfilled!
Hello everyone!
Well...I finally "finished" (so to speak!) the final bible study for Revelation...and actually I still have much to do as I have that timeline yet to fill in...mom and I have determined to work on that together next week which I am really looking forward to!
Thank you all for your questions and Cathie for the answers...these were some of the very same questions I struggled with while doing this study. I made the commitment to myself that I would not read anything on the blog until I completed the study and I am glad I kept that promise as reading "ahead" would sort have been like cheating...and there is not much benefit in "cheating" in bible study as most of that information does not stay solid in your mind unless you have allowed the Holy Spirit to teach you and allow you to realize and struggle for the answers on your own.
I will not be able to be at the final gathering this Thursday as Mark, myself and the boys are heading down to the States overnight for a spring break mini-getaway. I look forward to pictures though and hearing about it!
Cat - thank you for summarizing David Hocking from the other night...mom shared with me exactly what you had written and it is so good to hear it all again!
My love to all of you...you are a very important part of my life.
Marnie
P.S. we just found out today that my step-father-in-law has lung cancer. He and Mark's mom have been married under 3 years. Please be in prayer for them, when it comes to your mind as they are struggling right now with the shock of it all. Don is almost 83 and my mother-in-law (Marlene) is 74. Mark's dad passed away from cancer almost 15 years ago. Both Don and Marlene are believers which is a great comfort to all of us. Only one of Don's children is a Christian though.
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