Hi Girls! I'm transferring Cat's questions over to today's Bible Study Room Comments... good questions sweetheart!
I have Makenna today and then off to the hospital late this afternoon...
my mother may be released today so I will be getting her back home and settled but will be in the Study Room later tonight!
Love you!
14 comments:
kit-em-kat said...
Hi all! We had a great discussion today. Miss you, Cathie and Angie, and as always, Marnie. We love you.
We had several questions that we came up with answers for, but we're not sure. So I wrote them down to get your take on them, Cathie. I'll put them in a separate post.
I hope you're healthy and doing well, taking good care of yourself even as you take care of your mom. You give so much, we just love you.
February 26, 2010 12:12 AM
kit-em-kat said...
Ch. 20 Questions:
1. Who are "they" in verse 4?
I went back in Rev to the last references to groups of people and came up with the great multitude in Rev 19:1,3. This would also be the overcomers of 3:21
Typing this right now, I realized we overlooked one option, which to me at this point makes the most sense -- the twenty four elders from Rev. 4:4, and mentioned again in 19:4.
Another option that was posed was the apostles, referenced in Matt. 19:28 as sitting on twelve thrones and judging Israel.
February 26, 2010 12:26 AM
kit-em-kat said...
2. Who is sitting on the great white throne, and how do we know this? Obviously it's God, but is it Father, Son, the whole Trinity?
3. Is the first resurrection kind of in two parts? Those raised in the rapture, and then those who were martyred during the tribulation?
We had two more points we would like clarification on, but I'm having difficulty articulating, so I'm going to bed and I'll post the rest later. Unless someone beats me to it.
God bless.
February 26, 2010 12:38 AM
We also had questions surrounding the great white throne judgement and the bema seat. Does the bema seat judgement for believers happen before the millenium? Surely with people being born during the millenium, there will be many new believers. So will they stand before the great white throne along with the unbelievers, then be judged justified by faith, having their names written in the book of life? Is this what we see in Matthew 25, the sheep being separated from the goats? I'm a little confused as to the judgements and their timing. Additional references would help.
Thanks Cathie. It's great your mom is going home soon. We pray for her continued healing and for spiritual awakening. And for strength, health, and energy for you. I know you rely on Christ as your Sabbath rest. It's so cool how He is our Sabbath and our Today and our Hope for tomorrow! I'm grateful for His putting you in my life to help me understand Him more fully in His many aspects. Lots of love.
Hi! I'm not sure how much time I have so let's get right to it.... starting with the last question first...
"Does the bema seat judgement for believers happen before the millenium?
Surely with people being born during the millenium, there will be many new believers. So will they stand before the great white throne along with the unbelievers, then be judged justified by faith, having their names written in the book of life? Is this what we see in Matthew 25, the sheep being separated from the goats?
I'm a little confused as to the judgements and their timing. Additional references would help."
Let's work our way backwards on this question.
1. From my understanding of scripture, in my studies so far, the FULFILLMENT of Matthew 25 occurs AFTER the 1,000 year reign; YET the SEPARATING occurrs BEFORE the 1,000 year reign.
Matt. 25:41 is clear regarding the DESTINATION (the lake of fire), which reflects Rev.19:20; 20:10,14; yet it is also clear that AFTER the separating, the goats are sent to the abyss (Hades) to await their FINAL judgement (Rev.20:13-14)
Those that are left, are those whose names are written in the book of life , these inherit the Kingdom in ALL of its fullness... this is their reward.
The separating of the sheep and the goats occurs at the returning of Christ, with the church, O.T. saints and the armies of heaven (Rv. 19:14; Matt. 25:31; 1 Thess. 3:13) to set up His throne at the beginning of the 1,000 year reign.
2. From my studies, I have always placed the time frame of the Judgement Seat of Christ (Bema Seat) IMMEDIATELY AFTER the rapture of the church, which I believe (from our study of Revelation), will occur BEFORE the tribulation.
In Luke 14:14 Jesus said that "recompense" would be made at the resurrection of the righteous - this resurrection, I believe, is the rapture of the church; the recompense being the Bema (Judgement) Seat of Christ. So, if you are drawing out your timeline, you would see that there is (at least) 1,000 years between the Bema Seat and the Great White Throne.
Apart from the references that I have already given, Romans 14:10,12; John 19:13; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Cor. 3:15; Col. 3:25 are others that you may want to look into. Keeping in mind that Christians are NOT judged on their sins BUT for the deeds done in the body John 5:24; Rom. 8:1. The true character of our service will be revealed 1 Cor. 3:13; as well as the motives that compelled us 1 Cor. 4:5 as well as us having to give an account of our ministries Rom. 14:1-12.
We then return our rewards back to Him in worship and in praise.
I certainly do not understand it all, however, the deeper we study the more insight we are given!
So here is the next question...
Ch. 20 Questions:
1. Who are "they" in verse 4?
I went back in Rev to the last references to groups of people and came up with the great multitude in Rev 19:1,3. This would also be the overcomers of 3:21
Typing this right now, I realized we overlooked one option, which to me at this point makes the most sense -- the twenty four elders from Rev. 4:4, and mentioned again in 19:4.
Another option that was posed was the apostles, referenced in Matt. 19:28 as sitting on twelve thrones and judging Israel.
Here is what I believe, from my studies so far...
The "they" are those killed during the 70th week. They are the tribulation saints.
At this point, all the saved people have been raised to reign with Christ (extending from the RAPTURE to the TRIBULATION saints)...
Read verse 4 again and see if you can see this.
Next two questions...
1. "Who is sitting on the great white throne, and how do we know this? Obviously it's God, but is it Father, Son, the whole Trinity?"
Great question!
I believe that this is Jesus, for a number of reasons, but let's just look at one for now...
Chapter 21 tells us that the NEW Jerusalem comes down, out of heaven FROM GOD (so He is still in heaven)
2. "Is the first resurrection kind of in two parts? Those raised in the rapture, and then those who were martyred during the tribulation?"
Short answer is 'Yes!"
For those of you who studied Daniel, you will remember from Dan. 12:1–3 that it seems that the OT saints are also raised at this point (Rev. 20).
I would love to teach an 'in person' class on this subject alone... it is amazing! It is enough to say, that by the time of Rev. 20, ALL of the saved people (O.T. and N.T.!) have been raised (the first resurrection) to reign with Christ.
I answered the questions in the order that I did so that my last post would begin the thought process (and scripture study!) of the FIRST RESURRECTION extending from the rapture of the church (1 Thes. 4:13) to the resurrection of the saints described in Rev. 20:4.
Everyone raised in this first resurrection are saved and they will not experience the second death, which is hell (the lake of fire); remember John 5:24–29?
I know I keep saying this, but it is just because it helps me so much that I think it will help you as well... drawing out a timeline will cause you to see that that there is a 1,000 year span of time between the first (life) and second (death) resurrections.
OK, so I have to add something here just in case something I said earlier was unclear...
Matthew 25:31–46 makes it clear that the living Gentiles (goats and sheep) will be judged before the 1,000 year reign begins.
Believing Gentiles (sheep), are those that have loved and helped the believing Jews, Jews that Jesus refers to as 'brothers of Mine'. These saved Gentiles will enter into the joy of the kingdom that God promised for His people Israel.
The goats on the other hand... the unbelieving Gentiles will be 'earmarked' so to speak, for their final destination, the lake of fire.
Which leads me to ask you all two questions that will aid you in your study...
WHEN do the sheep enter into the joy of the Kingdom that God promised for His people Israel...
and...
DURING the 1,000 year reign... do people die?
Just askin'....!
Love you,
Cathie
Hi Cathie,
Thankyou for answering our questions.
In ch.21 it seems that verses 1-5are talking about God, then after that I'm not sure if the "He's" are God or Jesus. Although He says I am the Alfa and Omega which Jesus addresses as Himself back in ch.1:8
Just wondering.
Just reread Ch1:8 and I think it is God saying "I am the Alpha and Omega" as it plainly says: says the Lord God!!
Hey Margaret! I was just about to respond to you when I read your last comment.... well done!
1:8 can be directly linked back to 1:4 and forward linked to 4:8!
I'm high 'fiving you' through our screens!
Thanks Cat...you covered all our questions....and a big thank you to Cathie for answering....XXXXXX
Referring to the "they" in verse 4 of Rev.20, I think in that context they are the tribulation saints, but we are also told in Matt.19:28 that the Apostles will sit on 12 thrones, also in Rev.3:21 the overcomer saints will sit on thrones, and in Rev4:4 the 24 elders will sit on thrones.
Hi Everyone,
First of all, thank you Cat for submitting all our questions to Cathie. You did a great job of summerizing them. Much thanks Cathie for answering them. Between this week's lesson, the answers to the questions and trying to do a timeline I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. Hopefully after tonight and tomorrow night studying, I'll have a better understaning.
Cathie, I hope all is going well with your mom and I hope you are not exhausting yourself between babysitting and momsitting.
Hope to see you soon.
Love,
Jan
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